Interview with Dell Liebreich
| Date: | February 18, 1997 |
| Pages: | 30 |
Interview with Dell Liebreich, February 17, 1997
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 02/17/97 Location 644 Pierce Street Orig Incident Date 12/6/95 Victim Lisa McPherson VI Prosecute Yes X No Investigator Det. Jorge Carrasquillo Previous Status Active Subject Impound Inventory None
| NARRATIVE: | Today is February 17, 1997. We are at X, Texas, and we are conducting an interview with Dell, how do you pronounce your last name? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Liebreich. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Liebreich. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Liebreich. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Dell, for identification purposes, could you please spell full name, your date of birth, social security number and address. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Okay. D E L L L I E B R E I C H. My date of birth is X/29. Social Security Number is X. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And your address? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah, X, Texas.. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And home phone number, please. Ms. Liebreich:. X |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And it is now 6:30 Dallas Time. I'm going to pause this for a moment, I want to show you some documents and then we'll come back on tape. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | All right, we are back on tape, and it is now 6:45 p.m., Dallas time. Dell, I showed you some documents of copies of documents that we have, and you said you know this, or recognize, I believe |
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| one, two, three names. Ah, one of those was Carol Hawk. And according to you, she works at X? | |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And you gave us a phone number of, a work number of - X and a home number And the spelling of the last name is Hawk. H A W K, is that correct? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Would you tell me a little bit about and Carol and how you recognize that name? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah, Carol came to the house, Fannie's house here, Lisa's mother's home. Um, after Lisa's death. Ah, when the Scientology people were here, Carol came. She and a friend, I don't remember her friend's name, came to see Fanny. And ah, ah, that's how I know Carol. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay, and she's a friend of... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She was a close friend of Lisa's. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did Lisa stay in contact with her, in touch with her? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, not real, is more than probably she did any of the others. From what I understand. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. And she lives here locally? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She lives in X. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | In X. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. Now what about Steve Craig, you said you might have recognized that name. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | That name I've seen it, but I, I really don't know a Steve Craig I've seen the name. |
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| Agent Feola: | And Carlos Owens. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Carlos, I met at her funeral. I've, I've never spoke, you know, really talked with him. But um, he was carrying Fannie's coat and I, and Fannie said that's who he was, you know. I, I offered to carry her coat, I thought he was a Scientologist. I said I don't want them touching any [INAUDIBLE] like that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Well, you mentioned something about Carlos might have told someone in Scientology. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh. Okay. Um, Carol um, Lisa was real close with this Sandy. Sandy is the one that got her into Scientology, got her started. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you know Sandy's last name? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well now I do, it's Nunn. N U N N. I have the number someplace. |
| Agent Feola: | Is she still under the Scientologists? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. She and her husband both. Because I asked her. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And they live here in X? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | They live in X, Texas. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Oh. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Which is just west of here. |
| Agent Feola: | And that was when she was what about eighteen. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Mrnmm, Lisa was about eighteen, I don't know how old Sandy is. |
| Agent Feola: | How did she meet them, do you know? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ahh.... how did Lisa meet Sandy?. |
| Agent Feola: | Uh huh. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, when she graduated from high school, she and another friend went to work for the phone company. This other friend's mother was the supervisor, or had a position where she could get Lisa and her daughter a job. |
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| Agent Feola: | That's what was the name of the phone company. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Southwestern Bell is what it was. |
| Agent Feola: | That's the Dallas Phone Company. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It was Ma Bell. And ah, so she got them the job, and ah, the way understand it, Sandy was Lisa's boss. |
| Agent Feola: | At Southwestern Bell. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It wasn't Sandy Nunn at the time, it was I've seen it written someplace. I can't remember off hand. I can find it. But ah, she was Lisa's boss and she got her into Scientology. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you believe that Carlos told Sandy that, that Fannie was in the hospital. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, Sandy said that ah, I mean, Sandy told me that he did. She called here the night they were here to interview me. For "Inside Edition". And talked. And I was kind of keeping her on the line, you know, just to see why, you know, she called. Somebody she knew, some reason she knew. And ah, I said, ah, how'd you find out about Lisa or something, she said, "well, I didn't know anything, you know I don't read the papers or anything, ah, mother told me, I never read the papers", and I said, "well how did you find out Fannie was in the hospital?", she said, "well Carlos told me". And ah... he had, ah |
| Agent Feola: | So he might be involved in this. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, I really... I doubt that he is, but you know, he knew that. ah... because Lisa called, or wrote or called Carlos when Fannie said that, you know, when she was thinking about getting out. And asking, cause he was one of them, she wanted to know if he'd still be her friend, so, you know. |
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| Agent Feola: | She wrote him a letter. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, I don't know. Fannie asked him and I don't, I think he told her that he didn't get a letter. But Fannie was of the impression, see, that she was contacting her friends, wanting to know, their old friends to see if they would still would be her friends when, if she came back. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And Carlos works at the post office here in, in X? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | He works in ah... I think I can give you his number.... that ah... Fannie said he could only be reached during the day. |
| Agent Feola: | Here it is right here, ma'am. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh, on the back, okay. Okay. |
| Agent Feola: | Isn't that weird. The one that was sticking out here. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Okay. Okay. Now that says the home number, but. |
| Agent Feola: | We'll try it. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | That's Sandy, that's probably her. Now it's probably, no that's in X. I think this is it right here, because it's ah, she said and that's probably the X, I think it's... but apparently he can't be reached at home, because I think he gets off at 3:00, or I don't know, [INAUDIBLE]. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Jot down his home phone number anyway, just in case. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I don't.... cause those are old on that side, I think. I'm not sure. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And that same area code, X... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I don't know.. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Whether the X. |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | Whether the X. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. So you don't, you think that she wrote Carlos a letter or you're under the impression that Fannie told you that she... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Fannie thought she had contacted him either wrote him a letter or called him or something and asked him if he would still be her friend. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | As she did Kelly.. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | As she did Kelly. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Who's going to be here later on and we're going to talk to. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yeah, uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay, what I, what I want you to do now Dell, is ah, I want you to start day one, we want to get an idea of Lisa's background, ah, who can we talk to to find out more about her so, from your memories, from your recollections, start as far back as you can remember about Lisa and tell us up to when she.... |
| Agent Feola: | She grew up by herself, ma'am? I mean it would be easier if we asked you questions. She grow up by herself? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, she had a brother who was two years older. |
| Agent Feola: | Two yeas older, what was his name? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Steven. Steve. |
| Agent Feola: | McPherson? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. Steve McPherson. |
| Agent Feola: | And what happened with him? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah, he committed suicide at sixteen years old. She was fourteen. But she, Lisa told her mother that she didn't think he committed suicide. She never believed that he could do that. So whenever that is, you know, that's... |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | You think that had... |
| Agent Feola: | Was that something that happened here in the house or somewhere else. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No, it happened that he was a service station and borrowed the gun from the owner of the service station or something and went in the rest room and shot himself in the head. [INAUDIBLE]. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So, at, at, let's start at eighteen then, and at eighteen Lisa gets involved with the Scientologists, did you have any contact with her then? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, very little if any, because I lived away most of the time. You know. And I just, I just didn't think of Lisa very often. |
| Agent Feola: | Holidays and maybe. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yeah. Maybe. |
| Agent Feola: | Christmas. It may have been a different Christmas. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It was a different Christmas. I couldn't remember the years or anything. |
| Agent Feola: | Right. But just one day here, one day there. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | But, uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And then I think when you were showing us the pictures this afternoon, you had mentioned that it was a family gathering, she was really having a good time. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | They said she was, I wasn't there, I was ill at the time. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Was that in 95? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It was ah, New Year's Eve, 94. |
| Agent Feola: | New Year's Eve, 94. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | 94. And do you know if she, if there was any inclinations at that point that she wanted to leave the church? |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah... I could not say. I could not say. Other than she was really enjoying being with the family, she told her cousin, she hadn't seen her in fifteen years, and she just... having so much fun, she just didn't want to leave. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did Fannie ever tell you why Lisa was going to leave the church? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Fannie never knew for sure that she was going to. She never told her mother for sure. You know, or she never, I guess she was afraid to. |
| Agent Feola: | How was her relationship with her Mom? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, the last few years, very close. I will let you read some of the letters. |
| Agent Feola: | They were close over the... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | The last few yeas, uh huh. Just the last couple of yeas. |
| Agent Feola: | Sometimes growing up does that. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | The last time Fannie talked to her was before Thanksgiving for her accident, and ah, she, they were just carrying on, Lisa was giving her this lost list of things she wanted for Christmas, you know, and... and she said, "oh, Mother, you know I'm just kidding, I just want, you know, just... something", and, and uh, you know, it just, really up, really ah... |
| Agent Feola: | Uh huh. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | But she said she didn't know if she'd be home, Thanksgiving she had planned to come home Thanksgiving, but then she called and told her, "well I, you know, my work" or something having problem with the job or something, I, um, if I don't get home Thanksgiving I'll be home for Christmas for sure. |
| Agent Feola: | Do you know when that call was? |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | It was before her accident. I don't say I can remember, maybe a week or so before, but I really don't, you know, the date, I don't. |
| Agent Feola: | I know it's been what, a year and, been quite a while, urn... did her Mom ever call Lisa or did Lisa call her Mom? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I ah.. both, but mostly Fannie said she hardly ever called her because she's always at work. Det.Carrasquillo Now that you're mentioning work, did Lisa ever tell you or her mother or any family members, how much money she was making where she worked? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. She did ask Fannie not too long ago, ah, not too long before her death, her, somewhere back there, Fannie said that she told me recently that she asked her, well, do you need any money and she said "well no, Lisa, I don't need any money". She said, "well I can send you some money if you need some money". She said, "I wish had of told her I need some money cause I had any idea what she was doing with it". |
| Agent Feola: | So you didn't INAUDIBLE]. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Had no idea, no earthly idea. |
| Agent Feola: | And when did you learn that, ma'am. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Learn what she was.... |
| Agent Feola: | Yeah, what she was doing with it. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | When, when we went back to Florida and found some of the papers. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Tax returns? |
| Agent Feola: | When you went and met with the... To get the truck taken care of and all of that. |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | And to get her car and her possessions and they didn't want us to come down there. They were, they could even sent things to... you know, to have this furniture shipped or, you know, they would sell it or, the car... |
| Agent Feola: | [INAUDIBLE]. George, why don't you give us a little recap on Dell, either the phone call you or Fannie got about Lisa, and who that phone call came from and all that, you know. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It came from Bennetta. |
| Agent Feola: | Do you remember when that was? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It was on December the 6th, around 2:00 in the afternoon, because I happened to be in X and I was going to spend the night with my niece. That was my niece, and... I just had to call Fannie. And she was crying, and I said, what's the matter, and she said "Lisa's dead". |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Take your time. That's okay. |
| Agent Feola: | That's all right. That's all right, I understand. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Want me to get you some tissues? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No, I'll be all right. |
| Agent Feola: | Take your time, Dell. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I'm going to go ahead and turn off the tape at ah... 6:55 p.m. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | All right, we're back on tape at 6:58 p.m., Dallas time. Okay, you were asking Dell a question? |
| Agent Feola: | Yeah, I was going to ask her if she, from the phone call that you got on the 6th or Fannie got on the 6th from Bennetta? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Do you know Bennetta's last name? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Slaughter. |
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| Agent Feola: | All right, do you know her relationship with Lisa? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She was Lisa's boss. AMC Publishing Company. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | We're going to pause again. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | We, we're back on tape and it's 7:00. p.m. Texas time. |
| Agent Feola: | So Bennetta was Lisa's boss. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. And have you ever had an occasion to meet Bennetta and talk with you before this? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. |
| Agent Feola: | All right. Did Sandy. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Sandy did, yes. Sandy had... |
| Agent Feola: | Had spoken with her in the past? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. She had been here with, and Sandy had been to the Lisa's office when she worked here in Dallas for Bennetta. |
| Agent Feola: | And has known Bennetta. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And has known Bennetta. I don't know how long, but she's known her quite a while. |
| Agent Feola: | Do you know, Dell, when Lisa went to work for AMC Publishing here in Dallas? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I just found ah... yesterday, where about her resume and it says when she went to work, right here. |
| Agent Feola: | Is it possible that we could take a look at that? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you know if that company's still out here? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah, they moved to Clearwater, Florida. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | The company did, they didn't open a satellite office out here? |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | No, I don't think so. I don't, it's no knowledge they're not still here. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And ah.... |
| Agent Feola: | So I, I'm assume since she listed here her resident from 1989 and she had the last name... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Skonetski. |
| Agent Feola: | Skonetski. So it was after she came back from California and she came and lived home with Mom. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, she, it starts, you know. |
| Agent Feola: | Oh, okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Just ran across these papers. I went to courthouse and... had to stand in line and search for this, and finally found it yesterday. I was so glad to get it. Fannie said it was out there. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So, to your knowledge, that you were saying you know Slaughter, do you know her well? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. Well enough. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay. And, just to jump back a little bit and touch on the, were you surprised the amount of money you said they were claiming she made? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. Very surprised. Very surprised. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And she never let on to the rest of the family that... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Nothing about that. Nothing. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Her mother was surprised too? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh, very surprised. Yes. |
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| Det. Carrasquillo: | You would think if you made that kind of money you would want to share that or at least let your family know you were doing well. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Right. Well she said she didn't want for anything, you know, she had everything she wanted. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | There was another thing you said that ah, Fannie never called because she was always working. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She said yes, that Lisa usually called her most of the time because she worked all the time. But she hated to call her at work. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did she know how may hours a day she was working, did she tell her? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. She was always working. Or going to class. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Is there anything else you can think of? |
| Agent Feola: | Oh, yeah, there plenty of questions. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Go ahead. |
| Agent Feola: | Um.... when she, she lived in Dallas and she moved out to California and then she came back to Dallas like in 1989, early 90's. She lived here for a while I understand. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I believe she did. Ah... |
| Agent Feola: | Do you know of any place locally or if we showed you some addresses that you would know that, where she lived? Out of the house, I mean, she lived in an apartment complex somewhere here. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She lived in several different places I think, but I,. |
| Agent Feola: | Before she moved to... Florida. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Do you know what predicated her move to Florida? |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah.... a saturated market, I think, was what they selling, is what I understood. |
| Agent Feola: | Here in Dallas. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Agent Feola: | So did the company fold or did they just relocate or branch off. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I think, I don't know. I think they just ah... |
| Agent Feola: | Up and moved? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Up and moved, I don't know. I don't know. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I really don't know. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Do you know the location of the company, where it was? When she was working here? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I think it was on Cedar Springs or somewhere out in the Oaklawn area, because Fannie had been out there a time or two. |
| Agent Feola: | What'd she tell you? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well to see her, you know. |
| Agent Feola: | How about Gaston Avenue? That ring a familiar bell to you? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Gee, I think she lived on Gaston at one time. I'm not sure. Apartment I think. I'm not sure. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. And as far as... high school friends or friendships she developed while she was in Dallas, there's no one else that you can think of other than who we talked to. Kelly. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Kelly's sisters. But I'm, I'm not... I just met one of them. |
| Agent Feola: | How about any other relatives. Besides yourself and her cousins in X? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Kim. |
| Agent Feola: | Kim. |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | Kim? Well there's.., she had several cousins. |
| Agent Feola: | Is she close, was she close to any of them or kept in contact with any of them? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Didn't stay in contact with anybody. Really, I mean, you know, not... not while she was doing Scientology. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | If, if we ah, do you think it would be advantageous for us to drive down to.. ah... X and talk to Kim? Could she enlighten us there, do you think? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I don't think she could tell you anything, you know. I mean, she would if she could. |
| Agent Feola: | Yeah, we'll call her, we'll call her first. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Because ah... you know, she just saw her that New Year's. And they had so much fun. I mean that's one of the reason's Kim divorced is because she said you know, she doesn't want to wind up like Lisa, you know. She was unhappy and she wanted to go and do something what she wanted to do. So. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. So... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | We have Kim's phone number, right? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I can get it if you want it. |
| Agent Feola: | Ah... so you, so Fannie received the phone from Bennetta. Saying.... the December of Lisa's death. Okay. And what do you recall happened after that? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, I'm trying to piece together, I came, I was at the shopping mall and so I came over and my other sister came over, and I'm trying to remember when I assumed Bennetta and that bunch came in. |
| Agent Feola: | They came in for her service I understand? |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | They just came in, yes, they were here before any services or anything. I just can't remember what day they came. |
| Agent Feola: | In your opinion, Dell, what was the reason for that? Coming all this way for a service. Cause I know they held the service for her in Clearwater. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I, I, to me it was guilt. But I didn't catch at first, you know, but when, when ah, Bennetta first called Fannie, she said ah, well now, I've spoken to my attorney already, and Fannie said, "attorney, what for?" |
| Agent Feola: | Do you recall the reason when she called her on the phone and said she's dead, did she make any statements as to the cause of death? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She said something about meningitis. And then they said they were all going to have to take shots because they'd been exposed. |
| Agent Feola: | Did they make any statements about where Lisa was for the last two weeks of her life? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | We head several different stories. |
| Agent Feola: | From the Science.... okay, give me example of the different stories. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | One of them said she, ah,... |
| Agent Feola: | Do you remember which one? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I believe Gloria, her roommate, she didn't come up here. |
| Agent Feola: | Gloria did not come to Texas. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She did not come. She was moving out when we got there, well that's another. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
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| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah... ah.. Jeannie, I don't remember her last name, she's a tall blonde with, wore a braid down the side. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay, Jeannie. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And ah.../ |
| Agent Feola: | She told you... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And ah... Brenda. |
| Agent Feola: | Jeannie told you... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | What was the question now? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | [INAUDIBLE] |
| Agent Feola: | [INAUDIBLE] after work she was at the last.... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh. No, Fannie told me, that's what they, what Bennetta told her over the phone.. |
| Agent Feola: | The meningitis. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | That's that's a meningitis and they gave her the phone number for ah, Dr. Minkoff and she, you know, she talked to him a time or two, I don't remember, he called here or what, you know, and he's a Scientologist. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Are you relating to us what Fannie told you, basically. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Basically that. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did you have any contact with church members and did they tell you anything. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, ah, Bennetta told me, over the phone, that was just before they came up here, I guess. Ah, we were talking next when I asked her, I said, how long, why did it take you so long to call Fannie? And she said ah, well I was just up all night looking through Lisa's things and searching under the bed in boxes and |
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| everything trying to find Fannie's phone number. I said, oh, you didn't have her phone number? That was a lie. | |
| Agent Feola: | In the book? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | That was a lie. Her mother said she had been here to Fannie's home, she knew her name, she knew her number. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay, and what else did you find was unusual. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And ah... that was the first thing that really teed me off, and ah, well, cause she didn't call Fannie and then that lie, and then it was just one lie right after another. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What about what you said when they came to town. Were you here. |
| Agent Feola: | Who came to town? Would you remember who came to town now? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah... those three are the only names, they were here that came to the house. |
| Agent Feola: | Jeannie, Bennetta and Brenda. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Were you at the house also? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Okay, when they were here, and did you have any conversation with you at that time? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, they, they didn't talk too much, they were just, every time we would try to talk to each other or anybody, they were just hovering over us, so you know, just listening, listening. In the same way, it's ah, you know, with the viewing of the body. At the viewing of the body, and ah, that evening in particular. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | It's my understanding that ah, they were insistent? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh, oh, okay. Another thing. |
Page 19
| Det. Carrasquillo: | About the cremation? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. Ah, Fannie, ah, I talked to Bennetta on the phone. Asked her that, um, she was talking to Fannie, and Fannie said, Fannie said she wants to talk to you, and so I, she said ah, well I don't know how to say this, I said ah, how Fannie will feel about it, but ah, Lisa wanted to be cremated, and I said "what?" And she said, "Lisa had stated many times that that's what she wanted, was to be cremated", and ah, so Fannie, of course, being in shock, she said, she wanted to do what Lisa wanted, and agreed to it. And she was sorry that, you know, later, she was sorry she did it. |
| Agent Feola: | But they, they were the one that brought it up? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Right, they brought that up. She said, oh, and then she said ah, well shed already talked to her attorney. And Fannie said well, "why do you need an attorney, Bennetta? She said, "I'm her only living kin". She said, "well, you know she didn't leave a will". |
| Agent Feola: | She did not leave a will. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Did not leave a will. I don't know how she knew that, but. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay, so, Dell, when did you learn about the financial portion of it? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Before we go to that, I want to ask a question dealing with the cremation. They come here and this three of them that you remember, but there was actually more Scientologists than those three. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Many more. And they came for the funeral. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | How many? |
| Agent Feola: | Local, Science, local Scientologists. |
Page 20
| Ms. Liebreich: | I, some were local and, and the preacher, Brian Anderson, and I don't know how many came here. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Was Brian Anderson here also? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | He didn't come to the house. But he was.. |
| Agent Feola: | He was at the services. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | He was at the services. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | At the house, were they also insistent upon the cremation do you remember? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I don't believe, I don't remember discussing it. I don't, ah, you know, cause. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | It was already taken care of? Basically? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Agent Feola: | Where was the service held at. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Restland Memorial. |
| Agent Feola: | What kind of a service was it? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It was a memorial service. Viewing of the... |
| Agent Feola: | Brian Anderson gave a eulogy or ah. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh, nothing. No, he was just there. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did he tell you anything in particular at all? Brian Anderson? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Somebody, Brian, no. He, not at that time, nothing. Huh huh. |
| Agent Feola: | But you've head from him since. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Since. |
| Agent Feola: | We'll talk about that later. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No, he, as far as I know, he didn't talk to anybody then. You know, he just... |
Page 21
| Agent Feola: | Okay, anything else that was peculiar about the behavior of Bennetta or this Jeannie or Brenda? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, we, as I say, I came in, I had to go home, and so I came back and I came in, and they were all here. I don't remember what day it was, and I came in the kitchen. This Jeannie, ah, came over, I mean they, everywhere you go, there's one or two or three of them right over you. And ah, I said well, what airlines do you fly? You know. You know, to go to Clearwater, and she said, "oh, why are, you, you planning on a trip"? And then my sister head me and she came running in and she looked at me like they were doing, you know. Don't say anything. Yeah, we don't need to know or say anything. And I'm, oh, no. |
| Agent Feola: | [INAUDIBLE]. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I opened my mouth. So that was, that was. |
| Agent Feola: | All right, so, a few weeks later you do in fact later you do in fact travel to Clearwater. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yeah. |
| Agent Feola: | And what happened after that? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | After the funeral. Well, we were, we rented a car and we were looking for Lisa's apartment, and we finally thought we had located it and we saw some of the, you know, big apartment complex, and, we were driving slow and boy, here's this girl comes out, "Hi, Fannie, Hi Fannie". So they were looking for us. |
| Agent Feola: | Gloria, Gloria. How did they know you were going to be here? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | They know every move you make. I don't know. |
| Agent Feola: | They don't know every move I make. |
Page 22
| Ms. Liebreich: | They don't? Don't bet on it. I, I think, ah, our phones have been tapped the whole time, I don't know. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So you think that ah, they were expecting you. At Clearwater. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. Definitely. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | When you got there. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Moving out. She was, Gloria was moving out. Physically moving. Had already moved out. |
| Agent Feola: | Her stuff or Lisa's. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Hers and I don't know [INAUDIBLE]. Some of Lisa's stuff was gone that she brought back, the little dressing table and a couple of other pieces. So I, maybe she was going to move. I don't know what all she took. I really don't. Because, this was extremely late when. We got in at Saturday night I think [INAUDIBLE]. I'd have to look back at the dates. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Eighteenth? December 18th? Is a Sunday. December 17th... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It seems like [INAUDIBLE] we got there the 16th. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | December, is that when you met with the, with the guy who was involved in the accident at McDonald's? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No, that was ah... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Was it during that trip? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I, it was that trip, and I believe we met, we got in on Saturday night and then Sunday we rented a car and found the apartment. And I believe it was a Monday we found the accident report and found Joe's name. And he agreed to meet with us when he found, you know, when he knew who we were and everything. |
| Agent Feola: | Right. Did you know about the accident at all? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. We never had head a thing about the accident. |
Page 23
| Agent Feola: | So the phone call wasn't predicated while Lisa was in the accident and then she developed meningitis. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No. So there no, we had no knowledge, in fact I was talking, Gloria was in there I was talking about, you know, driving, what we'd put in the car to bring back, you know, and she said, "oh, going to take the car back? You going to drive it?" I said, "well is there any reason why I shouldn't"? "Oh, well, no, ah, I just thought maybe the battery might be down". So I just hiked downstairs and looked at the car. And... |
| Agent Feola: | And that's when you saw the grill. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | The radiator grill. Yes. The radiator grill. And Bennetta came down and she said "you don't drive". I said, "why", I said. Bennetta said "the radiator's ruined". She said "I'll show you". And she gets the keys and she drives down the block and just barely gets back. |
| Agent Feola: | How about anything else unusual while you were down there? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh. Well we were told that ah, to get, we wanted to talk to the policeman that ah, you know, investigated the accident. |
| Agent Feola: | How about, did you know at any time that the police were involved in a suspicious death. Did you know that at the time, Dell? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Not until we went down there to talk to them. And we, you know, I mean, we went to the police station. |
| Agent Feola: | At that time did you know the results of the autopsy report? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh, no. |
| Agent Feola: | So, in your mind she died of meningitis. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. And ah, so. |
Page 24
| Agent Feola: | And no one had indicated to you who was taking care of, whose care and custody Lisa was... anybody's. Anything they said. Cause they don't know. You'll have to ask so and so, or well, I'll ask them. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay, so I guess Pandora's Box opened up when you started going through some of the stuff you took from her apartment. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You said that, in that conversation with Brian Anderson later on, was that conversation while you were there in Clearwater? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. He came, he came, several of them came to the apartment. While we were there. And in fact they wanted to stay there, I think, you know. And finally we said, you have work to do. |
| Agent Feola: | You had planned on staying there. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | No, not really. I mean, they just wanted to be with us, you know, and see what we got. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And what you were doing. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And seeing what we were doing and everything. Bennetta was there and her husband and Brian, you know, different ones at different times and they'd send Brenda. Brenda and Bennetta, and you know, and you, we just had work to do, my sister told them. We don't have time to visit and... We couldn't get any truth out of them anyways. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Did Mr. Anderson say anything to you at that time that was peculiar or out of the norm? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I, my older sister might remember more about it than I do. Because I know before we left, he came back to give Fannie a check for some money that ah, I don't really think was in her |
Page 25
| bank account and Kurt Paine was on her bank account. And ah, not the social security number, just her social security number. And we found some receipts where she got deposited, you know, deposit slips. Quite a bit of money. And ah, of course it was not in there, course the bank couldn't tell us that, you know [INAUDIBLE]. | |
| Agent Feola: | Is that her boyfriend? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Yeah, I... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Boyfriend. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | If I'm not mistaken she had deposited $5,000.00, I think Brian gave Fannie a check for $1,000.00, something like that. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | He gave her, something, I really, you know I really don't remember. But ah... |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | But, but, Anderson didn't say anything about the death or anything that, that struck you odd or weird or funny at that time or peculiar? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Not at that time, no, I don't remember. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | How about since... |
| Agent Feola: | How about any contact after that. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, ah,.... back in December, I believe it was December of this past year |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | 96. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | We called, yes, he called several different times, and ah... the last time he talked about thirty or forty minutes. And ah, really, he said nothing. He just said, "oh, if we could just run back the clock", you know, "things would be different". And I said, "well, |
Page 26
| why did Bennetta wait so long". I was not aware of that. I was not aware of that. You know. | |
| Agent Feola: | When you started questioning some of this. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uh huh. He was just not aware of any of that. He didn't know a thing about any of that. |
| Agent Feola: | How about contact with Bennetta? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | None. |
| Agent Feola: | None. Whatsoever. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Huh uh. You know, I think Fannie some notes or something, you know, but not, you know, I don't ah... know it was about insurance and trying to get settled. You know on her ah, car insurance and stuff like that, she might have talked with some of them. |
| Agent Feola: | Okay. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Jeff Schaffner and, you know, but. |
| Agent Feola: | And then the records. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | And then we found the records and this was 94 that she, she made a hundred, almost $137,000. And ah... |
| Agent Feola: | A lot of money for someone with a high school diploma. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well, yeah, and ah... you can see there's $75,000 a month, those donations in the same year. |
| Agent Feola: | What'd you think about, what do you think about that Dell? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well I think it's ah, it's the way they're getting money and getting by with things tax exempt. I don't know. I really, I can't figure it out. I think there must be a lot in the government, in our governments. [INAUDIBLE]. |
Page 27
| Det. Carrasquillo: | You provided copies for us of these, did you not? Of these documents? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. Ah, Wayne Andrews has copies of all this. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I reviewed those already. Agent Feola:. Then what did you think though, about after the results of the autopsy were publicized? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Oh, over on "Inside Edition"? |
| Agent Feola: | Well, just the results of the autopsy. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | I mean, well of course I don't know the medical terms, but I think Dr. Wood, yes, she did a wonderful job, I'm real proud of her. |
| Agent Feola: | Did you know the results of the autopsy prior to that being released to the public? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | We had a copy of it, but not knowing, you know, we didn't know how bad, we knew she was dehydrated, and, and ah... but as far as... you know, what Dr. Wood said. We didn't know. We didn't know. And Fannie didn't see that, I wouldn't let her watch that "Inside Edition". |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | That's, that's pretty tough for Mom to handle. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Bad enough. She saw the "Hard Copy". |
| Agent Feola: | How about anything else. Can you think of anything else Dell, that is pertinent? Either for us to follow up on here or something that [INAUDIBLE]. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | My sister Ann could tell you a lot more than I could, I'll tell you. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | We don't have her name. |
| Agent Feola: | Yeah, what's her name? |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | What is your sister's name? Ann... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | It's Ann Carlson. |
Page 28
| Agent Feola: | Carison? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Carison, uh huh. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And, and what's her phone number? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Ah, X |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Does she live here inX? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Uhhuh. Yeah, she's the one that I went out to see this afternoon. She would have come over but she's not feeling well. |
| Agent Feola: | Is she under the weather? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | She's 76 years old, so she's feeling. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | Is she the one that was with you in Clearwater? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yes. She's, she's, she ah, was talking to Brian Adams when he brought that check, and, and we had really given old Bennetta upset, kind of because they were aggravating, you know, and ah. ... Ann was saying some pretty bad things to her, you know, and about her and... an old, Brian Anderson came and apparently and she felt that the, that he was taping us. For everything. And he, ah, somebody said he did that at the services, also, he had it on tape. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | He was taping you without your consent? |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Yeah, someone said that to us. |
| Agent Feola: | Rumors. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Rumors, you know. You know, it feels. She said it felt like that, so she's... I remember Ann said, "oh, you tell Bennetta that we're so sorry that we treated them like we did". |
| Agent Feola: | So they'd get off your back, huh. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | That we really didn't mean it, and I'm just so sorry. |
Page 29
| Agent Feola: | Just a general question Dell, um, all the years that Lisa was involved with the church in Dallas, did you have any idea about what involvement in the church is or what they were all about, or... or the extent of the membership or... |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Nothing except that she worked all the time. Fannie said she's always taking courses, or you know, or doing something. |
| Agent Feola: | The classwork or religious type classes. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Classes. These classes that you pay for. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | There's one more thing. Other than Kelly, sitting over there. Is there anybody else in X that you think is pertinent that we should talk to. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Well my sister might could remember some things that happened in Florida than I can, cause I was just mostly packing and... um... |
| Agent Feola: | We're going to have to [INAUDIBLE]. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | And, and ah, your sister Ann and you also said Carol will be important to talk to. For us to talk to Carol. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Carol... I think she needs to be questioned. I really, she, cause Lisa stayed in contact with her, probably more than ah, anybody else. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | I don't have any more questions for you, but now that you know my voice and you know ah, Agent Feola. If we need to talk to you, we could call you up and do it over the phone, I think you'd be a lot more comfortable, if I say, you know, it's Det. Carrasquillo. Okay? |
| Agent Feola: | And I'm an Italian girl Feola. |
Page 30
| Ms. Liebreich: | Feola, somebody said, well, my husband said what nationality? I said, well I don't know, it sounds Italian to me. I'm 100% Italian, George is. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | 100% Puerto Rican. |
| Ms. Liebreich: | Puerto Rican? Oh, okay. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | So. Anything else? |
| Agent Feola: | Not that I can think of right now. |
| Det. Carrasquillo: | We're going ahead and conclude this interview at 7:30 p.m., Dallas time. |
Ofc. Reporting Det. J. Carrasguillo/pr ID No. 630 Case Status Active Date Cleared ______________ Clearance Type Exception Type 1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined 3. Death of Offender 2. Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate 3. Unfounded secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody Ofc. Reviewing Date SAO Info