Interview with Kurt Paine

Date:March 7, 1997

SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department 
Report No. 95-29158                     Offense Death Investigation 
Date of Report 3/6/97                   Location 644 Pierce Street 
Orig Incident Date 12/6/95              Victim Lisa McPherson 
VI Prosecute Yes No                     Investigator Det. Jorge Carrasquillo 
Previous Status Active Subject None Impound Inventory None

Today's date is March 6, 1997. The time is 1615 hours. This is an interview with Mr. Kurt Paine concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation.

Det. Carrasquillo: Present during the interview are Agent Sharon Feola with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and Jessica...
Cutty: Jessie.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm sorry. Jessie Cutty, a friend of Mr. Paine. Ms. Cutty is a white female, date of birth X, residing at X, XX, Florida X. And.myself., Det. Carrasquillo. Mr. Paine, would you please state your personal information such as your name. And please spell your entire name for us. Your home address, date of birth, social security number, and home phone number and work phone number please.
Paine: Yeah. My name is Kurt Evans Paine. It's K U RT....P A I N E. Evans is E V A N S. And I live at X Avenue, X. My date of birth is X. My home phone number is X. My work number is X.

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Det. Carrasquillo: Did you provide your Social Security number?
Paine: X.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Mr. Paine, we had spoken earlier about what we were gonna cover in the interview. And I said I just wanted to let you expound on how you met Lisa...what you know about Lisa. Why don't you go ahead and start doing that. And if I have any particular questions, I'll go ahead and ask you after that.
Paine: Okay. Umm.. I met Lisa McPherson shortly after she moved here. I think it was in late 93 or early 94. And I met her at our church, which is the Church of Scientology. And we knew each other for some months. And after some months, we started going out together and went out together for approximately one year. And that relationship ended around May of 1995. And that's kinda the basic history.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you never knew her prior to her moving here?
Paine: That's correct.
Det. Carrasquillo: You never had contact with her in...
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: In Texas?
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Or California?
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you guys have an occasion to live together?

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Paine: We did for a short period of to two months. And I... I would say it was around October of 94...somewhere in there. That should be in the previous report.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did...did you reside here at this location or/ somewhere else?
Paine: 201-B Fairmont Street, which is right around the corner from here.
Agent Feola: Were you the only two individuals living there at that time?
Paine: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: What kind of arrangements did you have while you were living together? other words, sometimes when I'd cohabitate.. I paid all the bills...! bought all the food. Or did you split the expenses down...down the middle?
Paine: To be honest, I don't actually recall. I think I continued paying the rent. I mean it wasn't that much money. And as far as food goes, I probably paid for most of that because we ate... she ate out a lot and I ate out a lot. So wasn't really an issue.
Det. Carrasquillo: And at that point in time, her physical and psychological did you observe...observe it to be?
Paine: Quite normal.
Det. Carrasquillo: Fine.., she was happy go lucky... no problems?
Paine: Yeah...yeah. I mean I wouldn't be interested in having a relationship with somebody that wasn't like that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was she know...a sickly person...always getting sick or things like that?

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Paine: No, I can't...! actually can't remember her..other than maybe a cold or something, I don't....actually don't remember her getting sick.
Agent Feola: Let me ask you this Kurt. Youx/...your living arrangements were...were somewhat short lived.
Paine: Yeah.
Agent Feola: Can I ask you the reason for that. I mean, if you... did she move in with you for a temporary thing or was it you were gonna move in together and try to see how the relationship would work or was it financially beneficial? What were the circumstances surrounding you living together?
Paine: No, there was no financial incentive. Yeah, we...! guess it was basically the second point...was to see how it worked. And as it turned out, I was living in a very small place and...
Agent Feola: So Lisa moved in with you?
Paine: She moved in with me. I was living in a very small place. I had my business there, which meant the office took up about half of the place. And it was just too crowded. And so it wasn't working. Space-wise it wasn't working...
Agent Feola: Relationship...
Paine: Yeah, I mean it just was too much pressure and too small of a place... space. So she then moved out and we continued our relationship.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was she working for you?

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Det. Carrasquillo: What kind of business were you doing at that... same business...?
Paine: Yeah, same business I'm doing now: I'm an import agent and I...I'm like a manufacturer's sales rep for overseas food manufacturers.
Det. Carrasquillo: Pretty good. Okay. So how did she handle your breakup because I'm... I'm getting different information from different people. From your perspective, how did she handle that when you guys broke up?
Paine: Umm... she came over one day and told me that she was ending the relationship and that she felt that we were incompatible.., and wasn't particularly interested in discussing it or trying to resolve know. So at that point, the relationship was ended.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you remember when that occurred?
Paine: Well, I believe it was in May of 95. I'm not absolutely certain but that...that's what... that's about the time.
Agent Feola: So Lisa ended the relationship?
Paine: Right.
Agent Feola: Okay. No discussion...just...
Paine: It was a very brief discussion.
Agent Feola: No emotions attached? That's what I'm.. I mean was it just a matter of fact?
Paine: Oh no, I. I would say she was somewhat know...emotional was I.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you guys engaged?

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Paine: You know...somebody else asked me that. And I...I don', not formally. We had discussed.the...the possibility of it but had never really decided on anything.
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, because I...I...I was told...I..I think we were told that you were engaged and she took it pretty hard when the breakup came along.
Paine: I don't know. I mean we weren't formally engaged. I know that somebody brought up the point that I had given her a ring, which is true. I did give her a ring and it was a gift. It wasn't an engagement ring. And so that may have been misinterpreted. But we never formally decided we were getting married or set a date or anything like that. We did talk about it.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Let me ask you this though. guys lived together for two months and then she moved out but you continued to see each other?
Paine: That's correct.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And then in May you broke up. When did you guys open up your joint bank account?
Paine: Well, you probably know that better than I do.
Det. Carrasquillo: you remember having a joint bank account?
Paine: Yeah...yeah. Umm...we did have one and be honest with you, I don't remember when we opened it up. That... I bought this house in February of 95...yeah...February of 95. And she was going to move in here with me. And so I started doing some renovations on it. And somewhere

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after..sometime after that, I opened up...or we opened up the joint account or I think I put her on my account actually. And so it was sometimes after February I would guess. I mean I could go try to find records and things like that...
Det. Carrasquillo: Why don't we general...general right now. You put her on your account and it wasn't like a new account that opened was your existing account?
Paine: No, I put her on my account.
Det. Carrasquillo: Were you getting the statements or was she getting the statements?
Paine: I was getting the statements. Det. Carrasquillo And were you writing the checks or was she writing the checks?
Paine: You far as I know, I wrote most or all of the checks. And again, I'm not certain about that. I'd have to look.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Paine: Because that was a couple of years ago.
Det. Carrasquillo: Yes, if you wouldn't mind looking that up and letting me know because that' know...that might be important down the road.
Paine: Could you note that down Jessie?
Cutty: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: It was was your bank account and that was with which bank?
Paine: Barnett Bank.

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Det. Carrasquillo: So you actually put her on your account and it wasn't her account?
Paine: That's correct.
Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know if she had her own account?
Paine: Yes, she did.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you know which bank it was with?
Paine: 1 know where it is. It's... I don't remember the name of it. AMC Publishing is on Lakeview. I'm sure you know.
Det. Carrasquillo: Right.
Paine: And if you...if you're going south on Ft. Harrison, right past Lakeview there's a bank on the left hand side. And it was that bank because I remember going there once with her for something.
Det. Carrasquillo: In the blue a two story blue building?
Paine: I don't remember. I just remember there was a bank on the lefthand side south of Lakeview.
Agent Feola: On Ft. Harrison.
Det. Carrasquillo: Yes, there's two. There's a First Union...then an AmSouth.
Paine: I don't remember which one it was.
Det. Carrasquillo: Does it sit by itself?
Paine: I don't remember.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Paine: I mean...we just... she had to get some cash or get a paycheck or something like that. I just don't remember.

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Det. Carrasquillo: AmSouth or First Union. I'll check with those. Okay. So basically it was your account and... and all the activity in that account should come back to you and not her... correct?
Paine: Yeah, because I was getting the statements.
Det. Carrasquillo: And that account is still up and running?
Paine: I couldn't...after we split up, I couldn't remove her from the account. So I actually had to close it and open up another account.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So why....
Paine: Because of the bank regulations or something like that.
Det. Carrasquillo: When did you close that Barnett account?
Paine: It was sometime last year....yeah.. I think early.. I think it was early last year or late 95. I.again I don't remember. It wasn' know...that important to me.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was it before her death or was it after her you know?
Paine: I don't remember.
Det. Carrasquillo: But you did finally close it down?
Paine: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Because one of the questions I had, I...there was activity...and...and again I thought it was her bank account.
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: There was activity on her account after she had passed away. There was money going in and checks being written, and that's why I was curious as to....

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Paine: That's because it was my account and I was continuing to use it until I closed it.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Paine: And I think she's actually still on...her name is still on my Money Market Account because that was attached to the checking account. But I...again it just hasn't been an issue with me, so I haven't done anything about it.
Det. Carrasquillo: So still...her name still appears on your Money Market Account?
Paine: I think so...yeah...or it...
Agent Feola: What will happen is that will turn up during the investigation.
Paine: So I should probably do something about that, shouldn't I?
Det. Carrasquillo: Well, as far as you're telling us that it's your Money Market Account...
Agent Feola: We'll know.
Det. Carrasquillo: And I'll know now...
Paine: Well, it can be traced back to when I opened know...the de...deposits and things like that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Just like this can see when you put somebody on there, they'll develop a card.., a signature card at that time.
Paine: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And if it's your account, your card will be there.
Paine: Right.

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Det. Carrasquillo: Umpteen years before...until you get married and put somebody...or if you just happen to put somebody on it. So that's not gonna be a problem for you.
Paine: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: I don't believe so.
Paine: Well, I just don't want the family coming after my money, that's all.
Agent Feola: But you can understand why that would be a problem if in fact we went through all of her financial statements and then it looks like she has an account with her name on it..
Paine: Right...right.
Agent Feola: With money still there.
Paine: Right. Well, there is a paper trail for this, so...
Det. Carrasquillo: Right. That's why I was asking you. And.. know... and you''ve answered the questions.
Paine: Okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: You know...we're...we're not on a witch hunt. We're just trying to find out what...what know.
Paine: That's fine.
Det. Carrasquillo: And I think you've explained that very well. Uh...did you have any contact with Lisa from May to November of 95?
Paine: Yeah, a little bit. Umm...there was some written communication that went back and forth and we spoke a number of times as know.., maybe a half a dozen times... something like that.

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Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. You were both still church members and you'd see her at church functions?
Paine: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: And there was no hard feelings as far as you were concerned though?
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: And she didn't give you any indication that there was any hard feelings?
Paine:, not at all.
Det. Carrasquillo: So what I'm trying to get at is your breaking up with don't feel that was part of her problem because...
Paine: Well, I can't.. I can't speak for her. But first of all... as I said earlier...she ended the relationship.
Agent Feola: Right.
Paine: Okay. Umm... and yeah, I don't think she was happy about it and I wasn't particularly happy about it at the time. But as to what she felt about it or anything...! don't know because she didn't tell me. But it was something she did of her choice. know... after looking at it and thinking about it and having some communication with her, I accepted that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay.
Paine: And I assumed that she did too.
Det. Carrasquillo: You thought it had all been resolved then?
Paine: Well, I don't know that those things ever get completely resolved know... a... a fair amount of

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communication. But I think as far as it went and as much communication that went back and forth, it was pretty well resolved...yes.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So back then had some contact with her from May to December. Did you have any contact with her around the time she had her car accident? Paine:. When was that?
Det. Carrasquillo: November 18, 1995. Paine:. Probably prior to that. I'm actually not sure. There was...! ran into her a know...two or three times somewhere around that time. It might've been before. It might've been after. I actually don't know because I don' know...! just don't remember. And it know...pretty much "Hi, how are you?"
Agent Feola: In passing?
Paine: Yeah...yeah. It was in passing.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you have any contact with her while she was staying at the church for rest and relaxation?
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: That would...that would've been from November 18th through December 5th
Paine: In that time No, I didn't even know she was there.
Det. Carrasquillo: What I'm thinking is you might've been there taking some courses and you might've run into her in the hallways or something like that.

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Paine: Yeah. I said, I'm not real clear on the dates. The last couple of times that I ran into her, she was working on the Winter Wonderland project, which was a real important project for her. know...working on fund raising and organizing and things like that. That's what she was doing the last couple of times that I saw her. And I don't have the exact dates on that.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you have good knowledge about her work relationship when she worked at A...AMC Publishing?
Paine: Well, I know some of the people at AMC.
Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Who was she pretty close with that really knew her well that we can talk to and maybe get some insight about her?
Paine: Well, I'd say Benetta was her closest friend...Benetta Slaughter.
Det. Carrasquillo: And...and anybody else besides Benetta?
Paine: Umm...probably Brenda Hubert. I would tend...maybe Carol Lee South. I would say those were the three that she was the closest with. And I think by far Benetta was her closest friend.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you say Carol Lee South?
Paine: Yes.
Agent Feola: Carolyn Lee South is it?
Paine: Well, it might be Carolyn but I call her Carol Lee.
Agent Feola: Okay.
Paine: But yeah...

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Agent Feola: How about the Proctors?
Paine: She knew them. She worked with them. I don't know...! don't know them very well.
Agent Feola: How about a name of Motley.
Paine: Don't know her.
Agent Feola: Didn't know her?
Paine: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: But when she came know...a lot of times, people come home and talk about their work. I wanted to know if she had mentioned those friends and I can go back and talk to those friends. And what we're trying to do is get some insight of what was going on in her life....what was happening...what was she thinking about...
Paine: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: Prior to her demise...her death.
Paine: Well, mostly when she talked about work she was telling me about plans she had and interactions she had with them and things like that.
Det. Carrasquillo: While she was living with you, what was her normal work day...! mean what time did she leave in the morning and what time did she get home at night?
Paine: She would...! forget if she went in at either 8 or 9. And she'd usually work until about 6:00 and then she'd work usually half a day on Saturdays.
Det. Carrasquillo: So she was pretty good at... dedicated to her work?
Paine: She was very dedicated.

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Det. Carrasquillo: I understood she was a heck of a sales person.
Paine: She was their top sales person.
Det. Carrasquillo: The money was pretty good I hear.
Paine: Yeah, I think she did pretty well there. But she was very very good at sales.
Agent Feola: Did you know how much money she made Kurt?
Paine: Umm...
Agent Feola: Did you discuss money?
Paine: A couple times...yeah. She made over a$ 100,000 I know probably for two of the years that I knew her.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was she pretty extravagant with her money...I mean did... did she save or did she spend... did she spend a lot?
Paine: I don't think she saved a heck of a lot.
Agent Feola: Why do you say that?
Paine: I just didn't have that impression that she saved a heck of a know. know, when...I mean during the time we went out, when she wanted something she'd just go out and buy it. And that was know... she just kinda figured "well, I'll just make more know...and I'll get the next thing I need."
Agent Feola: How about the finances that she was spending towards her church functions? Did you know anything about that?
Paine: Not That was something that she pretty much handled herself.
Agent Feola: Would it surprise you that she was putting three quarters of her salary towards that?

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Paine: That much...yeah...yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: Is there anything else you can think of that's important that I neglected to ask you?
Paine: Not that I can think of. I mean I said, I covered things pretty thoroughly in the first report... or interview that I did. And I don't know significant or important that information was. But! can't really think of anything else.
Det. Carrasquillo: Ms. Cutty, did you happen to know Lisa?
Cutty: No.
Det. Carrasquillo: Never met association?
Cutty: No, I just came down here a few months ago.
Det. Carrasquillo: From where?
Cutty: Boston.
Det. Carrasquillo: Oh...bean town.
Agent Feola: I think you came at a good time.
Det. Carrasquillo: Got away from that nasty snow.
Cutty: Why?
Agent Feola: The weather...
Cutty: It's's actually a mild winter up there.
Agent Feola: It has been...yes...but this is beautiful isn't it?
Cutty: It's okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: Let me ask you one more thing that just popped...popped into my mind. When you first met Lisa, were you introduced or was it a chance meeting?
Paine: was a chance meeting.

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Det. Carrasquillo: At the church or...
Paine: Uh Huh.
Det. Carrasquillo: There... there was no formal introduction? Just happened... caught your eye and you guys started conversing and things happened to click from there?
Paine: Yeah.
Det. Carrasquillo: You have anymore questions?
Agent Feola: As a matter of fact Jorge, I do. Does that surprise you?
Det. Carrasquillo: No, it doesn't.
Agent Feola: Kurt, let me ask your opinion. dated Lisa for over a know..when you lived together. Did you hear about her behavior at the accident scene when she...when she had her accident on S. Ft. Harrison?
Paine: I heard about it after she died.
Agent Feola: What did you think about that? Would that surprise you from her?
Paine: Yes.
Agent Feola: The fact that she disrobed and was walking down the street naked?
Paine: Yes, definitely.
Agent Feola: That wouldn't be something that she would do?
Paine: I wouldn't have expected
Agent Feola: Had you ever.., ever observed any mental instabilities in Lisa while you were dating?

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Paine: That's a hard question to answer. I mean then you're getting into defining what mental instability is. I would say the answer is no. And if you...
Agent Feola: You know what I'm saying is that...
Paine: If you look at society as a whole, she was much...much saner than a lot of people around this town.
Agent Feola: Alright. And did you discuss...and if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to...but did you discuss the stages that she was in in her Scientology training?
Paine: On occasion. Those things aren't discussed a whole lot between Scientologists.
Agent Feola: Okay.
Paine: For reasons that may or may not be obvious.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you go to her clearing though when she'd been cleared?
Agent Feola: That's the reason why! asked you. Did you go to her clearing when she went to the clearing ceremony?
Paine: No.
Agent Feola: And how about the relationships that she had with her family? Did she ever discuss those with you? With her mother and her aunt and...
Paine: She never talked about her aunts. I was aware that she had one aunt and she...I don't recall her ever talking about her other than mentioning that she had an aunt. She talked about both of her parents. Her father, of course, was dead at the time. But she really cared about him and the guy was an alcoholic and, you know, had a lot of problems and had

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been dead for a few years I believe. And she called her mother pretty regular and...
Agent Feola: She... she kept in contact with her mom?
Paine: Oh yeah. And was very concerned about her because her mother Was an alcoholic and was not doing real well. And then her mother had a boyfriend who had some illness. And I think he passed away sometime ago or was about to or something... got really sick. And so she...yes, she was quite concerned about her mother's well being and her health.
Agent Feola: Okay. How about any old know.., school associates or anyone? Did she know if... did she ever keep in contact with those people in you know?
Paine: The only one I know of...and I don't know his a guy that she used to go dancing with. She used to go country western dancing a lot when she was in Dallas.
Agent Feola: Was it Carlos maybe or Lee? See if those names ring a bell.
Paine: Carlos maybe. Umm...and that was the only person I was aware of that she was in contact with. And she generally told know... that kind of stuff.
Agent Feola: Have you ever been to the...her address where she resided at Belleair Green?
Paine: Belleair Green?
Agent Feola: The apartment complex she was working at during the time that she died?
Paine: No.

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Agent Feola: Did you know...did you ever know anything about a roommatet hat she may have had there?
Paine: Umm...yes, she did have a roommate that I met once and I can't think of her name now.
Det. Carrasquillo: Was she
Paine: I think she's a hispanic woman. I...I...her name escapes me. I...I talked to her.
Det. Carrasquillo: Does the name Glora ring a bell?
Paine: Gloria...! think...yeah.. I think that's her name.
Agent Feola: Do you know any of the facts and circumstances surrounding the reason why she'd be living with Lisa?
Paine: No, I just figured she had a roommate. I.. I never...1.. I think I talked to her once while Lisa was still alive and I think! met her actually after Lisa died. And I didn't know her.
Agent Feola: I think that's it for me Jorge.
Det. Carrasquillo: Did you go to the memorial they had here for Lisa?
Paine: Yes.
Det. Carrasquillo: I've got one question for you Ms. Cutty. Are you an attorney or involved in a law profession in any way, shape, or form?
Cutty: No.
Paine: No. As I stated, she's merely a friend.
Det. Carrasquillo: No...just because once she sits in an interview like this, she becomes part of the..the report.
Agent Feola: In other words, if this thing eventually down the line.., that's what I've tried to explain to people will receive a subpoena if he does. Okay...just...

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Cutty: That's fine.
Agent Feola: She's a witness.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm gonna go ahead and conclude.
Agent Feola: Conclude this...yeah...okay.
Det. Carrasquillo: I'm gonna go ahead and conclude this interview at 1640 hours.

Ofc. Reporting Det. Jorge Carrasquillo/elg ID No. 630 Case Status Active Date Cleared ______________ Clearance Type Exception Type 1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined 3. Death of Offender 2. Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate 3. Unfounded secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody Ofc. Reviewing Date SAO info